Henry Kissinger, American Diplomat and Nobel Winner, Dead at 100 – Slashdot

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What did he do exactly to put him on that level?

What did he do exactly to put him on that level?
He conspired with Nixon to sabotage the Vietnam peace process in 1968 to help Nixon win the election.
He planned the disastrous invasion of Cambodia.
He supported Augusto Pinochet’s coup in Chile that involved murdering thousands of people.
He supported the right-wing dictatorship in Argentina that killed thousands of opponents.
He gave the green light to Indonesia’s invasion of East Timor.
He supported West Pakistan’s invasion of East Pakistan, including the killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians.
Depending on how you count, his actions resulted in the deaths of between two and four million people.
On the plus side, he helped to start detente with the Soviet Union, leading to a significant reduction in nukes, and opened up China.
Opening up China wasn’t a good thing. I’d have kept them inside their little box.

Opening up China wasn’t a good thing. I’d have kept them inside their little box.
Your entire currently cushy western life is built upon the foundation of opening up to China. You have gained many orders of magnitude more out of this relationship than you lost. They say hindsight is 20:20 but you seem like you really need corrective lenses.
Maybe people should stop buying so much of it.
Maybe we would actually have alternatives if we didn’t expect all our manufacturing to China.
Feel free to pick up Amish made furniture for your entire house. It’s always been available. You don’t actually have to buy a flat pack filled with plastic and sawdust shipped over the Pacific ocean. Well I mean you have a choice if you have money, if you don’t have money then well there are a lot of things in life outside of your control.
I don’t agree with on at least half the stuff you post but in this post, you nailed it. This is exactly how it panned out and we probably would of been better off keeping those jobs here.

Opening up China wasn’t a good thing. I’d have kept them inside their little box.
China’s rise was inevitable.
Without reconciliation with America, they would’ve focused on building ICBMs instead of iPhones.
“America has lost their manufacturing plants”
Right. The country that exports the most heavy equipment lost its manufacturing plants. The country that sells the most armaments lost its manufacturing plants. You’re so right.
America manufactures more than ever.
What has declined is manufacturing employment.
And labour efficiency is absolutely critical to any country that wants to have a high per-capita GDP (aka, “ability to buy stuff”). You can’t pay people developed-world standard wages while requiring developing-world amounts of labour per unit of product produced.

And labour efficiency is absolutely critical to any country that wants to have a high per-capita GDP (aka, “ability to buy stuff”).
I don’t really give a fuck until we institute some policies that make trickle down happen. A higher GDP doesn’t help me buy food or pay rent, it only helps me buy cheap crap from China. That’s nice and all, but not a substitute for being able to pay for the necessities of life.

I don’t really give a fuck until we institute some policies that make trickle down happen.
Since 2019, incomes have been rising fastest for people in the bottom quintile.
My neighborhood McDonalds has a starting wage of $18/hr.

Since 2019, incomes have been rising fastest for people in the bottom quintile.
Which takes very little money since they make so little money, and isn’t keeping pace with inflation.

Which takes very little money since they make so little money
First you complain that money isn’t trickling down, then you shift the goalposts to saying it doesn’t matter if it is. Whatever.
If low-income people really believe that their raises don’t matter, they are welcome to decline them.

and isn’t keeping pace with inflation.
Bullcrap. Since 2019, incomes are rising faster than inflation, especially for those at the bottom.

First you complain that money isn’t trickling down, then you shift the goalposts to saying it doesn’t matter if it is. Whatever.
What I said but you failed to understand is that very little money is getting to those people, they weren’t meeting their needs by a lot before and now they aren’t meeting their needs by less, but are still largely going into debt to survive. I didn’t shift the goalposts, you did.

Since 2019, incomes are rising faster than inflation, especially for those at the bottom.
And yet, inflation has risen much more than those incomes over the last decade, and the incomes have yet to catch up to the inflation. This is a continuation of the first point that you failed to understand, probably because you ar
“Since 2019, incomes have been rising fastest for people in the bottom quintile”
Why is that?

In order to buy food or pay rent, you have to give in exchange something of equal value.
We The People give not rising up and burning the whole thing down in exchange for having our needs met. And our needs are increasingly not being met.

“Since 2019, incomes have been rising fastest for people in the bottom quintile”
Why is that?
Supply and demand.
Labor markets are tight.
If McDonalds doesn’t pay well, people will go work for Burger King.
“I don’t know about you, but if I wasn’t making enough money to pay for my life, I’d not work in a profession like that.”
If you are in the position to not do that, that’s great, and I’m glad for you. But there are a lot of people out there with nothing in the bank and no real hope for improvement. If they go back to school to improve their employability they cannot even get SNAP unless they work more than half time or get certain types of financial aid, for example. Except in California that is, where they

China is dramatically expanding their ICBM stockpile to over 1200 warheads.
America has over 5,000.
You mean he sold Taiwan down the river. Some opening.

What did he do exactly to put him on that level?
He conspired with Nixon to sabotage the Vietnam peace process in 1968 to help Nixon win the election.
He planned the disastrous invasion of Cambodia.
[ I deleted many other things listed ]
I’m not disputing what you say, but I find it interesting that in all such similar posts, nobody blames Presidents Nixon and Ford for anything. Somehow everything was all Henry K’s fault. I guess there is no need to actually be president when you are believed to have more power than the actual president does.
“I’m not disputing what you say, but I find it interesting that in all such similar posts, nobody blames Presidents Nixon and Ford for anything”
Nixon gets plenty of blame, deservedly so
“nobody blames Presidents Nixon and Ford for anything”
In the very quote you included “conspired with Nixon” is very clearly blaming Nixon for his part.

What did he do exactly to put him on that level?
He conspired with Nixon to sabotage the Vietnam peace process in 1968 to help Nixon win the election.
He planned the disastrous invasion of Cambodia.
[ I deleted many other things listed ]
I’m not disputing what you say, but I find it interesting that in all such similar posts, nobody blames Presidents Nixon and Ford for anything. Somehow everything was all Henry K’s fault. I guess there is no need to actually be president when you are believed to have more power than the actual president does.
Kissinger was the duly-appointed advisor/diplomat/strategist of the duly-elected representatives of the citizens of the United States of America.
None of those citizens will so much as scrape their knee while retroactively crucifying a dead man in today’s Two-Minutes Hate.
Democracy is a process, not a principle. Democracy can produce death and suffering just as it can produce liberty and equality.
Kissinger is ours.
We made him.
We paid him.
We empowered him.
We rewarded him and sheltered him.
Kissinger is us, and
The podcast Behind the Bastards did a 6-part series on Kissinger. SIX FUCKING PARTS! Most of their subjects only need 2 or 3 parts to cover their bastardness. A rare few need 4. But Kissinger is in a class by himself — and not it a good way.
Check it out wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Looking down I hope?

Stephen King, dead at 63

I just heard some sad news on talk radio – Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren’t any more details. I’m sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him – even if you didn’t enjoy his work, there’s no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
??? !!!

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
would also have been appropriate for the occasion.

Truly, good riddance.
Okay, I’m truly having some skepticism here.
On the one hand, everyone here is shouting how he was responsible for murdering millions of people.
On the other hand he won the Nobel prize, and I strongly suspect that the Nobel prize committee do a lot of research beforehand.
Which is correct?
I strongly suspect that Kissinger was only tangentially related to any mass murder, in that the murders were actually committed by other people who weren’t under his direct command.
Much of his reported evil comes from his support of brutal regimes, but isn’t this done without a baseline for comparison? Could it be that he supported the lesser of competing factions, and thus reduced overall suffering? I don’t know the answer to this, but I *do* know that brutal dictators are very common in South America, and there’s no clear evidence that anything he did actually increased the death toll.
He planned the disastrous invasion of Cambodia – and Winston Churchill planned the Dardanelles invasion which was also a complete disaster. Is making bad choices in war the definition of evil?
I’m really not seeing it.
Given the polarization of the mainstream media, it seems more likely that this is a tribal point of polarization, where one side tries to frame everything someone does as evil.
This seems more like a left/right ideology thing.
Even if the invasion of Cambodia was a roaring success, it was illegal. The outcome isn’t the issue, because the ends do not justify the means.
Is any invasion legal? Was it really legal of USA to intervene in Vietnam, or Korea or Desert Storm or Iraq/Afghanistan? Sounds more like the nation with the strength and influence gets to make choices and the little countries with less strength and influence get to accept them.
It comes down to a nation can do something or it cannot. Legal is something the weak complain about in a world where winners are correct, by assertion that they won.
It’s always been this way and I can’t see it changing any. Had Germa

On the other hand he won the Nobel prize, and I strongly suspect that the Nobel prize committee do a lot of research beforehand.
Which is correct?
This will be not the first nor the last time the Nobel peace prize committee has disgraced itself.
If you are really interested in understanding what kind of evil figure Kissinger was and don’t want to do a lot of reading, I would recommend Eric Loomis’ obituary of him. [lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com]. It explains how it is possible for Kissinger to do a few good things he is still responsible for millions of deaths. And no, he didn’t pull the trigger himself but the deaths would not have happened without him. He is and always will be a war criminal.
> On the other hand he won the Nobel prize, and I strongly suspect that the Nobel prize committee do a lot of research beforehand.
Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize for doing fuck all. The Nobel prize doesn’t really mean jack shit these days aside from bragging rights.
> Is making bad choices in war the definition of evil?
Forgot bad choices or war, let’s talk about the definition of evil first.
Q. What do you call someone who murders 160 people?
A. Depends on who is paying them:
* If your government then a war hero,
* If the enemy government then a terrorist,
* If no one then a psychopath serial killer.
Governments have a LONG history of justifying their evil in the name of peace.
> mainstream media
Your first mistake was listening to propaganda / sensationalism instead of seeing things from all perspectives. [allsides.com]
> where one side tries to frame everything someone does as evil.
Have you not paid any attention to history?
“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”
—
“Only dumb soldiers fight a rich man’s war.”
He won the Nobel for “ending the Viet Nam war” which, of course, he was instrumental in starting and promoting. /irony
Illegally bombed Cambodia, killing 1.5 – 3 million civillians with 540,000 tons of bombs.
Also with Nixon, overthrew the elected government of Allende, installing Pinochet and killing 200,000 Chilean leftists.
“Tilted” towards Gen Yahya Khan in Pakistan, allowing the killing of 300,000 East Pakistanis looking for independence.
Portugal’s 1975 revolution gave colonies indepence: East Timor was seized by Suharto with Kissinger and Ford this time saying, “Whatever you do, be quick about it.” 200,000 dead.
But ye
Also remember the rabid anti-communist fervor in American politics, it was not just Kissinger but just about everybody that was happy to ally with brutal right wing dictators as long as they were fighting against leftists (with or without communist leanings).
So is Kissinger more or less guilty than Nixon? More or less guilty than Kennedy? Was Kissinger the boss of presidents, or vice versa?
Yes, Kissinger did a lot of very bad things, but so many of the stories make it sound like he was one man who was han
What couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy? A long full life ultimately dying of old age well beyond the average life expectancy of an American?

What couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy? A long full life ultimately dying of old age well beyond the average life expectancy of an American?
“Only the good die young. All the evil seem to live forever.” –Iron Maiden.
Those who don’t already know may want to search his name +”Christopher’s Hitchens” and/or read Rolling Stone’s obit:
https://www.rollingstone.com/p… [rollingstone.com]
Nixon: Accompanying you will be our top peace negotiator, Henry Kissinger.
Kissinger: How are you?
Bender: Is he any good?
Nixon: Looking like that, he talked his way into Jill St. John’s bed. Nuff said!
the Nobel Peace Prize is a load of BS at best, and a giant cynical fuck you to war victims:
Kissinger was a war criminal
Arafat was a terrorist
Obama hadn’t even done anything, and later didn’t do anything to deserve it
Wish I had some points! +1 What He Said!
Please don’t make me defend Obama. The Nobel Committee laid out the reasons that they voted to give Obama the award. In 2009, Obama began drawing down troops from Iraq, and also gave a well-regarded speech in Cairo to the Muslim world, promising a reset after the Iraq war and mutual respect. He also not only gave a speech at the UN calling for a world completely free of nuclear weapons but he started organizing UN security council meetings to try and get unanimous agreement to reduce the world nuclear weapo
I think those were less justified reason and more rationalization of a premature celebration. I think the contributing factors were:
-A way to “reward” American voters for voting out the Republicans after Bush spearheaded the unjustified war in Iraq. Going from that to voting in someone that was publicly against the Iraq war was something they felt rewarding. However that only has significance in the context of a misbehaving prior administration.
-Getting caught up in the mood of his campaign. We had an i

Please don’t make me defend Obama. The Nobel Committee laid out the reasons that they voted to give Obama the award.
Their reasons were fluff. Utter noise.
They gave it to Obama as a Fuck YOU to Dubya. Nothing else.
Obama was given the prize simply because he wasn’t Bush.

Obama hadn’t even done anything, and later didn’t do anything to deserve it
That prize wasn’t for Obama, it was for Bush… or rather Obama not being Bush. I wouldn’t get my panties in a twist over it. Not worth it.
(lol, CAPTCHA: tilting (at windmills?))

Obama hadn’t even done anything, and later didn’t do anything to deserve it
Oh now, come on. Don’t sell the man short. He conducted more drone strikes than any other president.
News of Kissinger dying is blowing up like Cambodia in the 1970s.

I don’t like people piling on after someone is dead and buried where they can’t defend themselves
He had decades to defend himself. The reason why people dance over his corpse is because he was unsuccessful.

generally I don’t like people piling on after someone is dead and buried where they can’t defend themselves
No, fuck ’em. https://www.youtube.com/watch?… [youtube.com]
One day soon in 2029, we will finally have a president who Kissinger did NOT advise.
An interesting book and recommended read by the late great Christopher Hitchens.
I mean, if you were allmighty, wouldn’t you want to do whatever you can to spend as little of eternity as possible with that bastard?
as they say…
Successfully containing the Communist Bloc was far more important than any war crimes. Necessity knows no law and destroying Communists was necessary unless one is not Communist. I certainly don’t approve of his mistakes, but because they were mistakes.
The early Cold War was far too serious to let sentiment interfere.
We have that luxury today because there is currently no Warsaw Pact or USSR, and Chinese nationalism now has a capitalist profit motive for acceptable if not good behavior.
Kissinger and men like him were necessary to preserve secular democracy. They succeeded.
I hope you’re next 🙂
I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.
Truly a great democrat.
You are an evil bastard, just like Kissinger.

You are an evil bastard, just like Kissinger.
So he’s just as evil as Kissinger for stating a historic fact?
Seriously, grow up.
So you’re saying “secular democracy” is an ideology that required mass murder and war crimes to prop up, and that’s somehow justified. If that’s the case, how is it better than Communism? You’re happy for war crimes to happen as long as the victims chose or lived under a different ideology to you? You’re no better than Hitler or Pol Pot.
Anti-communism was a religion in America. It was a matter of faith, you did not question it lest you be branded a heretic. So much a religion that even unions were seen as gateway drugs to full on communism. This anti-communist religion even had its own inquistion under McCarthy.
There are still people today who call Nixon and Kissinger traitors for not finishing the war. Granted, they’re not normal sane people but they are out there.
“praising Bin Laden and rioting in favor of Hamas”
Bin Laden used to get praise when he was fighting against the Russians; Hamas exists because ISRAEL equipped & funded a Muslim Brotherhood splinter group to counter Fatah
The cold war would have fizzled out fine without him.

Successfully containing the Communist Bloc was far more important than any war crimes.
The ends justify the means? Hm. We could kill off the planet and claim we made world peace. Worth it?
Of course not. There would be nobody left to enjoy the peace.
Personally, I suspect that people like you evaluate the world FAR differently than me. All things being equal, I would rather live in a Capitalist society rather than a Communist society. That being said, the fight wasn’t really against Communism or Capitalism. It was about Fascist Dictators who are Capitalists worried about Fascist Dictators who a
https://www.politico.com/magaz… [politico.com]
Still conspiracy but with anti-Communists which makes a considerable difference.
Tom Lehrer’s comment [wikiquote.org] in 1973: Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize
Otherwise the only realistic outcome was her grave would be robbed and her carcass put on trial, with copies of the footage circulated between everyone who owned a VHS north of Newcastle.
With Kissinger it’s a similar problem. They will have to dispose of that leather skinned haemovorous shrike’s carcass like it is nuclear waste that could be looted for the public relations equivalent of a dirty bomb.
Errr…Marines get turned on by liberals? Who knew?
Everyone [insider.com].
I’m just tired of watching you talk to yourself.
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